George Hill’s pro .40 argument


One of the cool things about writing a blog is that you get to write about what you want.  I have been accused of being biased towards Glocks and 9mm and my EDC gear and those people are right!

I looked at my needs, identified my lifestyle, training and protection needs, chose the gear that best fit with them and now I am biased towards them…  but if something comes along that fills my need better I will be biased towards that instead.  One of the reasons that you will likely never see a really negative review on my site is because I can’t imagining me wanting to sit down for 2 hours and write something negative.

But I really do like debates and there may not be a better gun debate than caliber for the following reasons…

  • There is a bunch of data that can be quoted
  • There are so many variables at play that nearly all of the data is refutable based on the scenario
  • It is a decision we bet our life on

Here is the 3 main facts though…

  1. All Pistol Calibers SUCK!  If you need a gun you want a long gun.
  2. All Guns are better than harsh words or a sharp stick
  3. All pistols/calibers are a collection of compromises

You need to decide that compromises you are willing to make.

George Hill, the Mad Ogre, wrote a post yesterday on his Love for the .40.   Click through and take a look at his reasons for selecting the caliber.

My response to his reasoning was…

Being that I wrote the post Michael cited, it shouldn’t  be a surprise what side I’m on… But the most recent decision to shoot .40+ caliber round you cited was made 26 years ago. (That decision can rent a car!)

There have been huge gains in bullet performance over the past 25 years narrowing the gap in performance. But the key factor is cost/performance.

Police departments spend other peoples money so the cost side is less of an issue. For trainers that shoot thousands of rounds a year, that is lost money in their pockets. For CCW’s the $ translate to fewer trigger pulls, less range trips and fewer training classes.

If the choice was you have 2 magazines and a gun to defend your family what do you want in the gun… Ok, .40.

But if the choice is, this year you have a $2,500 training budget and you can either shoot 5,000rds of .40 or 6,000rds of 9mm AND have 2 days with an instructor.

I want the 9mm because that is what I trained with, it is what I have most trigger time with and it allows me to get better training.

What is your take?

About

Ron is the Founder and President of When the Balloon Goes Up! He competes regularly in IDPA as an ESP/Expert, his focus is on concealed carry, home defense and analyzing equipment to find “Gear that Just Works!”

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  • http://blog.robballen.com Robb Allen

    My problem with the 9mm is that there are numerous stories of people being totally riddled with holes and limping on. I read a fascinating series of posts from a coroner in Atlanta who talked about the numerous bodies he examined. Since the 9mm was the most popular round for the gangsters, he had a *lot* of experience with examining bodies ventilated with the round.

    His conclusion? It took too many shots from a 9mm to bring down a person. Rarely did he see a body with only 1 or 2 9mm holes. .380 was even worse.

    Do the tests where people shoot into a block of Jello make it look like it penetrates as good as everything else? Sure, and if I find myself being cornered by a bunt shaped Pineapple desert, the 9mm will protect me. But there’s all kinds of other data that say the addition of things like clothing, bone, sinew, and other various items generally found on a standard goblin can really mess with the ballistics.

    However… I wouldn’t want to be shot with one. And the fact that you can pack a lot more bb’s into the magazine means you have more ammo on hand and can afford to ventilate the goblin thoroughly. Anything worth shooting is worth emptying the magazine into.

    The whole argument truly is academic. People have been shot in the head with a .50 and lived, winged with a .22 and keeled over deader ‘n dead, taken a .45 to the brain pan and told stories about it to their grand kids, and caught a 9mm with their eye and had their birth certificate revoked. There are SO many variables, 99.9% of which you cannot control that it simply makes sense to carry as much gun as you are comfortable and proficient with. If that’s a 9mm, you’re golden. All you can handle is a .38 Special with “Rainbow Brite Unicorn Fart Loads”, then by golly, carry the damned thing.

    Don’t focus so hard on gelatin tests and coroner’s reports. When it comes down to it, being able to put holes where you want is the important part.

    For the record, I shoot .40 for competition, mostly to meet Major power factor. I reload to keep costs down (although reloading 9mm would be even cheaper). I carry both .40 and 10mm because I have no issues managing recoil on either platform. I wouldn’t suggest 10mm for most people because of cost and the fact it can be a stout round, but ballistics wise it’s a rather impressive creation.

    • http://balloongoesup.com Balloon Goes Up

      I see we agree completely! Thanks for taking the time to comment.

    • Laughingdog

      On one hand, I’ve personally met someone who was shot 8 or 9 times** with 9mm, fought the shooter off, got himself an ambulance, and obviously lived through it. On the other hand, it was all FMJ ammo. Trying to kill someone with 9mm or .40 FMJ is like trying to kill someone with an ice pick; if you don’t hit the right spot, you need to put in A LOT of holes to do the job.

      For me, 9mm was the obvious choice when I bought my first gun almost a decade ago, and it was price that played the largest part in it.

  • http://myfavoritemarlin.blogspot.com/ Mo

    Hunting has taught me that paper ballistics are meaningless. What actually happens in the field cannot be predicted by foot pounds of energy nor can the words in magazine articles/ads be trusted when applied to real live critters.

    I suspect the same is true of gunfighting as real experience is rare among even those who write about it and the circumstances under which that experience is gained is even more variable.

  • http://godgalsgunsgrub.blogspot.com/ Dann in Ohio

    My family has standardized on the 9mm cartridge for many of the reasons you have gone that route for a handgun… plus the matching 9mm full-size and compact Ruger SR9 pistols we’ve chosen work well for all three of us… the wife, the teenage daughter, and me… letting us standardize for our family’s defensive purposes… to exchange guns, ammo, magazines… and the same with our 5.56/.223 rifles and 12 gauge shotguns we use for personal and home defense…

    No, we haven’t lost our minds nor hunkered down in our bunkers… but we live far out in the country, we’re usually 10-35 minutes from a responding sheriff’s deputies… and we are our own first-responders… as are most of our neighbors in the area… and the criminal element has picked up with the down and out economy…

    And many men I know are arguing about guns and calibers for self-defense while the biggest liability many will have are their untrained, unplanned, and unprepared significant others or children… carrying a .50 caliber won’t matter when your wife or child runs out in front of you… between you and the bad guy…

    We’ve got injury plans, fire plans, and intruder plans… we have first-aid supplies, fire extinguishers, and guns ready at hand… tools, training, and mindset… always continually learning… because we care and love each other…

    All this to say… to each his own… but there are many decisions beyond guns and calibers that need considered… but in our house we’ve done the best to make sure any wolves trying do us harm will encounter a prepared, planned, and coordinated response…

    Good discussion…

    Dann in Ohio

  • Steve

    Dann makes an excellent point: training and “infrastructure” are needed as much/more than the “right” caliber.

  • http://WIILSHOOT.COM Les

    I started shooting .40 since I found the choices in 9mm too confusing: +P, +P+, 147, 115, 124, NATO? By contrast, .40 was simple: 165 and 180 gr. (Ok, there are some 155 and etc out there too…)

    I feel like after 5 years with the round, I know how it is going to shoot, what I’m capable of, and what the potential of the load is. Even though I’m shooting way above Power Factor in USPSA and IDPA, I don’t feel that this has been a detriment – you get used to what you get used to…

    Additionally, I’ve started reloading and the costs have gone dramatically down, but YMMV.

    Just my $0.02…

  • Al T.

    “I read a fascinating series of posts from a coroner in Atlanta who talked about the numerous bodies he examined.”

    Robb, that post was a lie. The OP is a fraud. Never happened.

    BTW, George is getting bullets mixed up with cartridges. He needs to Google “Sectional Density” to understand how he invalidates his argument.

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